Welcome to the Genesee & Wyoming Railroad
all-time oster and surviving locomotives page.
Page 2, Genesee & Wyoming Railroad

 


Genesee & Wyoming Railroad

First, a clarification.
there is a difference between the Genesee & Wyoming Railroad, and the Genesee & Wyoming Corporation!
they are related, but not exactly the same thing.

The G&W Railroad is that small Western NY salt-hauling railroad that ran between Retsof and Caledonia, NY,
only 14.5 miles long, and began in 1894. That small railroad is the topic of this webpage! 

That tiny ancestral Genesee & Wyoming Railroad was the first railroad in todays global G&W corporation "family" of shortlines all over the world! "G&W Orange", that began on the G&W railroad, can today be seen on railroads all over the world..it all started with a salt mine in Retsof, NY.

And ironically, the original G&W Railroad no longer exists as one of the many shortlines in the G&W Corp family of railroads! the original G&W was folded into the Rochester & Southern system around 2002/2003.
the R&S is another "G&W family" railroad.
So the G&W railroad is gone, but the G&W Corporation and its collection of shortlines lives on.

Another bit of trivia, that could cause some confusion...
Normally all the "G&W Family" lines locomotives get lettered with their respective railroad name,
such as "Rochester & Southern" or "Buffalo & Pittsburg" or "Huron Central"  etc.
with "R&S" or "B&P or "HC" in the logo.
and the only locomotives that actually said "Genesee & Wyoming" and wore a "G&W" in the logo
were the actual Genesee & Wyoming units of Western NY.

made sense! easy to follow..

But today, even though the original G&W RR of Western NY is gone, the G&W Corporation has been lettering locomotives with "Genesee & Wyoming" in places such as Australia!
I dont know what the story is there..

But this page, history, and locomotive roster will be concerned only with the G&W shortline of NY state.
The original Genesee & Wyoming! 
If its in Australia, it wont be on this roster! 
 
 

G&W history and timeline:

1859 - Oil is discovered in Titusville, PA

1878 - A drilling team, moving into south-west NY looking for more oil deposits, instead uncovers a large salt deposit in Wyoming county.
           Amatuer geologist Carrol Coker, having knowledge of salt deposits at Syracuse, and a knowledge of rock
           formations, concludes that more salt formations can likely be found in Livingston county, just west of the Genesee River.
           Coker convinces Western NY financier William Foster Jr. to invest in a drilling project, and the huge salt deposit at
           Retsof is discovered.

           Later, in the 1880's, as a town grew around the salt mining operation, the town of Retsof is incorporated. 
           "Retsof" is "Foster" spelled backwards, named after William Foster, Jr.

1891 - The Genesee & Wyoming Valley Railway is incorporated.
            The first railroad route runs East from the mine, 2.5 miles, to connect with the WNY&P Railroad. (later the PRR Rochester branch)

1891 - A second route is laid from Retsof 1.5 miles westward, to the interchange with the DL&W at Greigsville.

1894 - The Third route, commonly considered the "G&W mainline" opens between Retsof & P&L Junction. (Caledonia)
            10.7 miles north from Retsof.
            The G&W is the 5th and last railroad to arrive at P&L Junction, The Erie, NYC, LV and BR&P
            are already there. The G&W will also interchange with two other major eastern Class-1 systems on
            the southern, Retsof end, the DL&W and the PRR. And the G&W also interchanged with the shortline Halite & Northern,
            which hauled salt from the Sterling mine in Cuylerville north to Retsof.

1895 - April 1 - the northern line officially opens, the G&W.V. is now hauling salt to six different Class1 railroads on 14 miles of track.

1899 - March 24,  the Genesee & Wyoming Valley Railway becomes the Genesee & Wyoming Railway.
           The G&W.V. was regorganized and sold to the Fuller family, who had owned the salt mine since 1890.
            Members of the Fuller family are still listed as company officers in 1970, 75 years later!

1912 - G&W leases the Halite & Northern Railroad, which runs from the Sterling salt mine at Cuylerville, north to Retsof.
           now the G&W runs between P&L junction, through Retsof, and south to Cuylerville.
           This move brings down the wrath of the mighty PRR onto the tiny G&W. The PRR is upset that it will lose exclusive
            access to the Sterling mine. The PRR took the G&W to court, arguing that the G&W and H&N should not be
            considered common carriers, and instead should be considered switching roads only, and thus should not participate
            in through rates on commodities. If the PRR had won, it would have been the end of the G&W..but the case went
            all the way to the Supreme Court, and the G&W won! giving the G&W legal status as a Class-2 common carrier.

1929 - G&W ends passenger service.

1932 - The BR&P becomes part of the B&O system.

1934 - G&W abandons the former Halite & Northern between Retsof and Cuylerville.
           The G&W shrinks back to its original route, P&L junction to Retsof/Greigsville/Retsof Junction.

1938 - First abandonment of a Class-1 route in the area. NYC Peanut abandoned between Holcomb and Caledonia.
           (east out of Caledonia)

1944 - The diesel era begins with the arrival of GE 80 ton switcher #20. Followed by #21 and #22 in 1945.
           the G&W continued the same number sequence from the steam era into the diesel era..quite unusual.

1945 - Last steam operations on the G&W.

1952 - First Alco RS1 arrives.

1961 - G&W begins aquiring its own salt hoppers.

1962 - the G&W's original route, Retsof to Retsof Junction and the PRR interchange, is abandoned when the PRR
           abandones it's line.

1968 - G&W purchases Business car "Edward I" from the New Haven.

1972 - B&O becomes Chessie System.

1976 - EL and LV are absorbed into Conrail. LV and EL tracks abandoned at P&L junction.

1976-1985 - The D&H interchanges with the G&W via trackage rights on Conrail, running on the former
                     DL&W mainline between North Alexander and Greigsville.

1980 - The current "G&W Family" paint scheme, seen globally today, is first worn by new MP15DC's #45 and #46.

1982 - June, G&W takes over the former Conrail trackage (originally DL&W mainline) between Greigsville
            and the DMM connection at Groveland. 

1982 - G&W corporation begins to aquire other shortlines.

1982 - Conrail abandons the former NYC Peanut between Caledonia and Batavia. (West out of P&L junction)
           Leaving the G&W with only two connections..Chessie system at P&L junction, running on the old BR&P/B&O,
           and the Conrail/D&H connection at Greigsville, on the old DL&W.

1985 - Chessie sells the former BR&P/B&O from Rochester to Silver Springs to the new Rochester & Southern
            shortline, which is a new "G&W Family" line.

1985 - Conrail abandons the former DL&W from Greigsville west to North Alexander.
           Leaving the G&W with only one remaining connection to the outside world, the new R&S at P&L junction.

1985 - G&W aquires the DMM, the G&W reaches its largest size, extending from P&L Junction south to Dansville.
           about 34 miles.

1994 - March 12, a magnitude 3.6 earthquake rumbles under Livingston County, beginning the flooding and eventual collapse
            and loss of the Retsof salt mine..the very reason for the G&W's existance for the last100 years.
            could this be the end for the G&W? not quite!

1998 - 4 years after the loss of the Retsof mine, construction begins on the new Hampton Corners salt mine, located
           about 10 miles away just east of Mount Morris. (this is the large salt mile visable right alongside Route 390 near Mount Morris.)
           the G&W builds a new spur from the abandoned DL&W
Mount Morris passenger station over the new mine..
           the G&W is back in business hauling salt again!

1999 - The G&W is 100 years old!, and is one of very few railroads to operate as the same independant railroad
           throughout the entire 20th Century.

2002 - or 2003, exact date still uncertain..the G&W Railroad is absorbed in the Rochester & Southern system.
            ending the 103 year history of the G&W Railroad as an independant entity.
            The R&S now extends from Greece, NY at the north end, south through Rochester to Brooks ave yard, 
            to P&L junction where the line splits - one route to Retsof, Mount Morris and Dansville, (original G&W)
            and the original "R&S Mainline" to the NS interchange at Silver Springs. (see system map on the R&S page)

2006 - January 31, 2006 - American Motive Power (AMP) recieves its first locomotive at the former Foster-Wheeler
            plant in Dansville! Keeping the former DMM, and the southern end of the G&W/R&S alive.
            AMP rebuilds locomotives. in 2006 and 2007, dozens of older
            locomotives have been rebuilt there, here is a small sampling. (goto page 2 for photos)

2007 - Bringing us up to today..Salt continues to move north on the old G&W tracks, as it has for the last 116 years.
           and old locomotives are hauled south to Dansville to be reborn.
           The last seven G&W locos, 45,46,50,51,1000,1001, and 1002, all remain working for the R&S, and so far, 
           none of the remaining G&W locos have been repainted with a R&S logo! 
           all 7 still retain their G&W markings, and 5 of the 7 are in G&W orange. (all except #50 and #1002)


 For such a tiny railroad, (only 11 miles long), the G&W directly interchanged
 with an amazing number of Class 1 systems during its history!

LVRR
Erie
DL&W
PRR
New York Central
BR&P
B&O
Chessie System
D&H
Penn Central
EL
CSX
Conrail

Those railroads represent virtually the entire history of North East railroading of the 20th century..
and G&W directly connected with them all..
How many 11 mile long railroads can say the same??

 
 

G&W All Time Roster and Surviving Locomotives.

The G&W owned a total of 39 locomotives during its 103 year history.

18 steam locomotives,
and 21 diesels.

one steam locomotive survives,
and 17 diesels are known surviving. 
 

Steam Roster:



Photo Road No. Wheel Arr. Builder Year Built C/N # Status Heritage Notes









  1 0-6-0T Baldwin 1891   disposition   sold 1892
            unknown    









  2 0-4-0 Baldwin 1892   disposition Listed as being from two sources:  
            unknown C/N 12762 built 6/92 for the Niagara Falls  
              & River Railway #1, or the Owasso River #2,  
              C/N 12762 in 6/92  









  3 0-4-0 Baldwin 9/1893 13725 disposition nee G&W #3  
            unknown sold to Buffalo Union Furnace Co. 10/1908  









  4 4-4-0 Baldwin 1884 13725 scrapped nee Lehigh Valley 239  
              returned in 1898, possibly on lease only.  









  5 2-6-0 Dickson 3/9/1883 410 disposition
unknown.
nee D&H 194
named "Cooperstown"
to D&H 172
to G&W 5
 see * Note 5
           
   









  6 4-4-0 LVRR 1888   scrapped nee Lehigh Valley #190. 19X24-56
              aquired by G&W in 1903  
              scrapped 1909  









7 2-6-0 Alco 4/1905 30988 disposition nee G&W #7 18X24-56
      Schen     unknown sold 1913 to Birmhamton Rail & Loco Co.  
              resold to Alexandria & Western RR,  
              Garden City, LA  









 
8 2-6-0 Alco 4/1906 39908 disposition nee G&W #8 18X24-50
      Pitts     unknown sold 1920 to Southern Iron & Equipment Co.  
              Atlanta, GA  
              resold to Ursina & North Fork RR #8, re#16.  
              T.T. Tabor 1111 says built as 2-6-2 but rebuilt.  









9 2-6-0 Baldwin 7/1910 34964 survives! see *note #1 below for details.  
            Chattanooga, TN    









  10 2-8-0 Pitts 3/1900 2075 disposition nee P&LE #145, re#3922 20X26-50
            unknown to Mongahelia RR #7  
              to Mac-Dougal Const Co, before or after  
              sale to G&W?  









  11 2-8-0 Brooks 11/1898 3084 disposition nee BR&P 206, built as a 4-8-0 20X26-50
            unknown rebuilt as 2-8-0 by BR&P DuBois shops  
              and sold to G&W.  









12 2-6-0 Porter 1/1916 5775 scrapped nee G&W #12 69 tons
              scrapped at Retsof, 1956 20X24-50









  14 4-6-0 Baldwin 5/1894 14018 scrapped 1923 nee Buffalo & Susquehanna #111,  18X24-56
            Arcade, NY Renumbured B&S 107:1,124:1,154:1,104  
              to Wellsville & Buffalo #104 in 2/1915;  
              to Genesee & Wyoming #14 in 1917;  
              to General Equipment Company #0;  
              to Arcade and Attica #4 in 1922.  









  15 2-6-0 see *note#2 1905   disposition see *note #2 below.  
            unknown    









16 2-6-0 Porter 2/1920 6455 scrapped nee G&W 69 tons
              rebuilt 1936 20X26-50
              scrapped at Retsof, 1956  









17 2-6-0 Porter 2/1920 6619 scrapped nee G&W 69 tons
              standby until 1956 20X26-50
              scrapped circa 1959  









18 2-6-0 Porter 12/1922 6762 scrapped nee G&W 69 tons
              sold 1/53 to General Crushed Stone, Leroy, NY 20X26-50
              used by GCS 1956-1962  
              scrapped circa 1967.  









19 2-6-0 Porter 1/1923 6796 scrapped nee G&W 69 tons
              scrapped at Retsof, circa 1959 20X26-50




































































































 
 

Diesel Roster:


Photo Road No. Model Yr. Built Serial # Status Location Current Paint Heritage Notes










 
20
GE 80ton 7/1944 27567 derelict  McDonald, OH
 
 
                nee G&W 20 - 1944
sold to Hunkin-Conkey Const Co (Cleveland OH) - 1962
to Birmingham Rail & Loco Co. 1986 (broker)
to Standard Slag Co. Lordstown, OH
to Lafarge Corp (Lordstown OH)
to Penn Ohio Logistics (McDonald OH)
to LTEX (Larry's Truck Equipment) currently derelict

(thanks to Charles Woolever for the detailed history!)


 
21
GE 80ton 8/1945 28235 unknown     nee G&W 21 - 1945  
                to Consumers Power Co., Jackson, Mo. 1960's  


22
GE 80ton 11/1945 28325 operating.  Byesville, OH  BSRW red/black
nee G&W 22 - 1945
to Eli Lilly Pharmacutical Co. Lafayette, IN. 1960's
to Logansport & Eel River 82
to Ohio Central 82
to Byesville Scenic 386, Ohio. (2006)
(thanks to David Baer for "finding" #22!)
 
               
 










25
Alco RS1 1/1952 79580 scrapped     nee G&W 25 - 1952  
 
(40)
            Re# to G&W 40
                to Bay Colony Railroad #1064, sold 1989.  
                BCRR removed the engine, and sold the hulk  
                to Green Mountain, 10/96, GM used the trucks,  
                and scrapped the rest.  
30
Alco RS1 5/1955 81345 operating. Hartford, CT CCRR black nee G&W 30 - 1955  was G&W
 
 (41)
     
    Re# to G&W 41  Bicentennial unit 1976
 
 (1976)
            Re# to G&W 1976 in 1976, Bicentennial paint.  
                Re# back to G&W 30  
                to Cape Cod RR  #30   
                to Central New England RR #30  Privately owned.
 
42
Alco RS1 11/1948 76212 operating. Hartford, CT New Haven nee New Haven #0670 - 1948  
         
    to G&W 42 - 1/1964  
                stored at Retsof, 8/20/89  
                sold to Cape Cod Railroad, Hyannis, MA.  
                to Central New England RR #0670  
43
Alco RS1 10/1949 77147 unknown     nee Chicago & Western Indiana #256 - 1949  
                To G&W 43.
Sold in 1981 to Jersey Central Terminal RR.
 
 
44
Alco RS1 2/1950 77847 preserved Industry, NY Kodak nee Chicago & Western Indiana #260 - 1950 Preserved at the 
                to G&W 44 R&GVRRM as EK 9.
                to Eastman Kodak #9, 1971  
                Donated to the R&GVRRM in 1997 by Kodak.  










35
Alco S4 6/1959 82008
OOS - stored Sodus, NY  GW Orange nee G&W 35.  
     
      to Connecticut Central 35  
                Currently Ontario Midland #35.  
36
Alco S4 11/1953 80941 operating Sodus, NY OMID black nee P&LE 8655. was G&W
(1776)
            to NYC 8655 Bicentennial unit 1776
                to G&W 36  
                Re# to G&W 1776 in 1976, Bicentennial paint.  
                Re# back to G&W 36  
                to Connecticut Central 36  
                Currently Ontario Midland #3  










45
EMD MP15DC 1980 769350-1 operating R&S system GW Orange nee G&W 45 - 1980 First units to wear the current
46
EMD MP15DC 1980 769350-2 operating R&S system GW Orange nee G&W 46 - 1980 G&W family paintscheme.










47
EMD SW1500 12/1969 35293 ? operating York, PA GW Orange nee Houston Belt & Terminal #50. W&P merged into PNWR
        35296 ?       to G&W 47 - 5/1985 in 2000. (Albany, Oregon)
                to Willamette & Pacific 1551 (a G&W line) in 1996. Unit named "Toledo"
                to Portland & Western 1551. (a G&W line) in 2000
                to York Railway, (a G&W line) York,PA, in 2007  










50
EMD GP38 1970   operating R&S system CR Blue nee Penn Central 7844 - 1970  
                to Conrail 7844 - 1976  
                to G&W 50 in 1985  
51
EMD GP38 1970   operating R&S system GW Orange nee Penn Central 7862 - 1970  
                to Conrail 7862 - 1976  
                to G&W 51 in 1985  










 
61
Alco C424m 5/1963 84544 scrapped     nee EL 2402 - 1963 All 3 units wore
        3358-02       to CR 2476 - 1976 D&H blue while with
                to D&H C424m 461 (rebuilt Hornell, 1980) the G&W
                to G&W 61 in 1985  
                Wrecked Caledonia, NYon 6/20/86 and scrapped  
62
Alco C424m 6/1963
84547
future uncertain, Silvis, IA MNRR Red nee EL 2405 - 1963 see *note #3
        3358-05 could be      to CR 2479 - 1976  
          scrapped     to D&H C424m 462 (rebuilt Hornell, 1980)  
                to G&W 62 in 1985  
                to Guilford 62  
                to Minnesota Commercial #62 in 1992  
                currently at National Railway Equipment.  
63
Alco C424m 6/1963
84550
future uncertain, Silvis, IA MNRR Red nee EL 2408 - 1963 see *note #3
        3358-08 could be      to CR 2482 - 1976  
          scrapped     to D&H C424m 463 (rebuilt Hornell, 1980)  
                to G&W 63 in 1985  
                to Guilford 63  
                to Minnesota Commercial #63 in 1992  
                currently at National Railway Equipment.  










1000
EMD SW1001 11/1973 73623-5 operating Hampton Corners GW Orange nee Reading Railroad 2605 - 1973 current salt mine power.
                to CR 9405 - 1976 Hampton Corners (Mount Morris)
                to G&W 1000 in 1999?  
1001
EMD SW1001 12/1973 73623-17 operating Hampton Corners GW Orange nee Reading Railroad 2617 - 1973 current salt mine power.
                to CR 9417 - 1976  Hampton Corners (Mount Morris)
                to G&W 1001 in 1999?
see *note 4.
 
1002
EMD SW1001 12/1973 73623-23 operating Buffalo CR Blue nee Reading Railroad 2623 - 1973
                to CR 9423 - 1976  In Buffalo on the SB
March 2011
                to G&W 1002 in 1999?















































































































 

*Note 1

The saga of G&W #9!
I just did some serious digging on G&W #9..what a life she has led! 

1910-1918 - G&W 9
started out as G&W #9, built by Baldwin in 1910.
to Southern Iron & Equipment Co. (dealer) #1498, in 1918

1919-1929 - Brooklyn Cooperage Co. #16
to Brooklyn Cooperage Co. #16, in 1919

1929-1938 - Tennessee & North Carolina #206
to Birmingham Rail & Locomotive Co. (dealer) (Alabama) in 8/1929.
to Tennessee & North Carolina #206, in 1929

1938-1961 - Smokey Mountain #206
to Smokey Mountain #206, in 1938.
 

1961-1973
Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg, TN:
to Rebel Railroad 206, Gatlinburg, TN. 1961. ("Rebel Railroad" was not an actual railroad, it was a theme park)
to Grover Robbins of Pigeon Forge, TN, in 1964.
1966- Rebel Railroad theme park renamed "Goldrush Junction"
1969 - Goldrush Junction bought by the Cleveland Browns football team.

1973-today
1973 - #206 left the tourist traps.
(after that, Rebel Railroad-Goldrush junction contined to evolve, and is today "Dollywood")
and finally, in 1973, she stopped her rambles and settled down at the 
Chattanooga Choo Choo Holiday Inn, in Chattanooga, TN, where she is still on display today as "number 29"
done up in a hideous "back dating" in an attempt to convince tourists she is the ACTUAL, the original, "Chattanooga Choo Choo" from the famous Glenn Miller 1941 song..which she obviously isnt.
(I found several webages claiming #29 is the original "choo choo")

actually..the song was about a passenger train, the first Cincinnati Southern Railway passenger train into Chattanooga, in 1880.  not one specific locomotive.

Pardon me, boy
Is that the Chattanooga choo choo?
Track twenty-nine
Boy, you can give me a shine

its hilarious that the song says the train leaves from "track 29"..
so they gave the LOCOMOTIVE number 29! 
ugh..

Here she is as Brooklyn Cooperage Co. #16, in 1919

and finally..here she is today..
comparing the current photos to Brooklyn Cooperage Co. #16, its clearly her..
warning, you may find these images disturbing! 

http://www.chattanooga-charm.com/images/track29train1.jpg

http://www.lewisdt.com/research/train.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~abclair2001/chooch3.jpg

well..at least she is still with us!
thats something anyway..cant complain about that!
sure beats the alternative..

Scot


*Note 2.
There is some conflicting info on the heritage of G&W #15.
One source, the G&W booklet from 1970, says she was built in France and worked on the Panama Canal
before coming to the G&W. originally 5-foot gauge and regauged.

A second source, also from the G&W, the roster collected from the G&W by Charles Woolever, says:
2-6-0, built Alco-Schen, c/n 38178, 1905, 19X26-54. Built for Panama R.R. # 105 as 2-6-4T and 5-foot gauge.
resold to A.B. Shaw (D) in 1905, Chicago, IL, and rebuilt to Std gauge, resold same year to G&W.

The second source also seems to imply the loco probably never actually worked on the Panama canal,
but was built for the canal railroad, in 1905, never went to the canal (for an unknown reason) and was instead rebuilt/regauged in 1905 and went to the G&W.

The data from the 2nd G&W source is likely correct, but I wanted to give all the known data anyway.
We have no known photo of #15.


 *note 3
"Ex-Minnesota Commercial C424M’s 62 & 63(Ex- D&H 462 & 463, G&W 62 & 63, nee-EL 2405 & 2408) is reported as stored at National Railway Equipment. 
 Future doesn’t look bright for these Alcos, probably will be stripped for parts." 
  -John Komanesky 


There were also several diesels that the G&W technically owned, but were never on the active G&W roster:

Alco S2 - built 1/49 - c/n 76588 - nee Port Huron & Detroit #60 - aquired 8/1985, sold 5/1986 to KY-TN Ry / E D&W #24 

Alco S4 - built 8/56 - c/n 81866 - nee B&O #9084, then Port Huron & Detroit #62 - aquired 8/1985, sold 3/1986 to Seaside RR

DMM #1 and #2 technically belonged to the G&W in 1985/86, until they were sold in late '86. never received G&W reporting marks or numbers. 

Alco RS1 -    nee Chicago & West Indiana #262, aquired 1970's, used for spare parts only. - scrapped.

Alco RS1  -   nee NYS&W #233:2,   used for spare parts only - scrapped
 



*note 4
The true heritage of G&W 1001.

I originally had the heritage information for G&W 1001 listed incorrectly (and so does every online G&W roster.)
She had been listed as:
Builders number 73623-24
nee Reading Railroad 2624
to CR 9424
to G&W 1001
that is Wrong!

She was frame checked..her correct heritage is actually:

Builders number 73623-17
nee Reading Railroad 2617
to CR 9417
to G&W 1001
currently operating on the Rochester & Southern at the Hampton Corners, NY salt mine.

So where is the real Reading 2624?
she is ALSO owned by the G&W!
and has also been recently frame checked! which confirms:


Builders number 73623-24
nee Reading Railroad 2624
to CR 9424
to Savannah Port Terminal 1003 (a G&W family line.) link.
to RLIX 1003
currently operating with
Savannah Port Terminal in Georgia.

So..two independant frame checks, both confirm the numbers above..
which definately confirms that G&W 1001 is 73623-17, NOT 73623-24.





*note 5
Concerning G&W steam locomotive No. 5

I originially had G&W number 5 listed as a 4-4-0, and listed as
a 4-4-0, and as Dickson b/n 272.
that is now believed to be incorrect..

G&W No. 5 was most likely a 2-6-0, and Dickson b/n 410.
Originally D&H 194, named "Cooperstown"

Note from a forum post:
March 18, 2010.

Hey everyone,
I have recieved some new data about G&W number 5.
I had her listed as a 4-4-0, but new data suggests she was most likely a 2-6-0.
(I have never seen a photo of this locomotive.)

I have copies of three different hand-typed rosters, all probably written long before the age of the internet:

Roster 1:
5 4-4-0 Dickson 272 9/1880 18x24" 55 3/4" ex D&H Canal Co. (Penna. Div. #37 "John B. Smith")
that roster says "Courtesy of W.L. Reddy and H.L. Goldsmith"
and was probably written in the early 1960's, because it stops with locomotive No. 35.

Roster 2:
5 2-6-0 Dick 1880 272 ex D&H
(no source or date information)

Roster 3:
5 4-4-0 Dickson 272 9/1880 Orig Deleware & Hudson Canal Co #38
(no source or date information)

I copied the text on those three exactly as they are typed..including "Deleware"

Those three rosters conflict in two areas..
4-4-0 vs. 2-6-0
and D&H #37 vs. D&H #38.

They all agree on Dickson as the builder, b/n 272, and a build date of 1880...
however all of that could be incorrect..

I recieved an email from Chris Shepard, a former co-worker of mine, and a member of the Bridge Line Historical Society (D&H) out in Albany,
and Chris has some D&H and Builders records that show that G&W Number 5 was most likely a 2-6-0, not a 4-4-0.

also, "John B. Smith" AND Dickson b/n 272 as G&W Number 5 is possibly incorrect..
here are some records on the John B. Smith, Dickson b/n 272:

Loco_Count: 159
1st_Builder: Dickson Locomotive Works
2nd_Builder:
3rd_Builder:
1st_Build_Num: 272
2nd_Build_Num: 0
3rd_Build_Num: 0
Date_Built: 1880-09-28
1st_Date_Rebuilt: 0000-00-00
2nd_Date_Rebuilt: 0000-00-00
3rd_Date_Rebuilt: 0000-00-00
Date_Received: 0000-00-00
Date_Off_Roster: 1907-00-00
1st_Wheel: 2-6-0
2nd_Wheel:
Sold_To:
Former_Railroad:
Final_Num: 128
6th_Num: 0
5th_Num: 0
4th_Num: 0
3rd_Num: 0
2nd_Num: 128
1st_Num: 37
Engine_Name: John B. Smith
Final_Class:
3rd_Class:
2nd_Class:
1st_Class: B
Notes: Renumbered #129, 1899-00-00, off roster by 1907-00-00

If it actually left the D&H in 1907, that doesnt quite jive with the G&W timeline..
because G&W bought their number 7 in 1905..so it doesnt make sense the G&W would have bought number 7 in 1905,
then two years later get number 5 in 1907! all indications are the G&W numbered every locomotive consecutively, as they arrived.
although it also says "off the roster by 1907"..which impiles it could have left before 1907.

Chris thinks this could be our G&W Number 5 instead:

Updated: 2006-03-02
D: Y
Builder: Dickson Locomotive Works
Builder_Number: 410
Date_Built: 1883-03-09
Date_Received: 0000-00-00
Date_Off_Roster: 1900-05-00
Wheel: 2-6-0
Sold_To: Genesse & Wyoming
Former_Railroad:
Final_Num: 172
6th_Num: 0
5th_Num: 0
4th_Num: 0
3rd_Num: 0
2nd_Num: 172
1st_Num: 194
Engine_Name: Cooperstown
Final_Class:
2nd_Class:
1st_Class: B
Cylinders: 18 x 24
Drivers: 55 3/4 inc
Wt_on_Drivers:
Total_Wt:
Boiler_Pressure:
Tract_Power:
Notes: Renumbered #172, 1899-00-00, sold, 1900-05-00, to
Genesse & Wyoming

That record actually says "sold to G&W"..and it says a sold date of 1900..
which fits our known G&W roster timeline very nicely:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/GW/GWpage.html

Both Dickson locos are clearly 2-6-0's, so I think its safe to conclude the 4-4-0 info for G&W No. 5 is simply wrong..
which casts doubt on the rest of info for #5 in those rosters..
(if they didnt even get the wheel arrangement right, its likely the rest of the data is also wrong)

Chris is quite confidant his D&H info is accurate, its all from Bridge Line HS D&H records...
so im more inclined to trust the D&H info, rather than the old hand-typed G&W rosters..
although without an actual photo, we cant be 100% confidant on anything quite yet..

What we really need is a photo of G&W 5, then photos of the two D&H locos in question!
thats unlikely..but possible..

So thats where things stand right now..
thoughts anyone?

thanks,
Scot

 
 




 

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